Of course I would have wanted Sadie or Lexie to get a second chance even if I hate them. George faiuled by one point, because he was worried about Mer and got distracted. If Mer got a second chance, he deserved one too especially when he got distracted worrying about a friend, and yes I would feel that way about every character.
I don't think the others are evil. I love Derek (he is my second fave after George and I adore MerDer), but I do think that about Mark.
I use to like him until this season, but he was really at his worst this year. Being with Lexie is making him unlikeable, but fair is fair and I won't go on bashing him for the sake of his fans.
George deserved better. He had a lonely childhood and a lonely last year of his life, and even a lonely death. There is nothing worse than that especially with someone as lovable and kind as him.
It's all good. My only issue was the fact that apparently the other men are evil human beings. They're not. Obviously I will stand up for them but it doesn't mean that they are excused or that what they did was right. I just want for people to see this objectively.
I understand that all George's fans are upset, and they should. However, I do not agree when someone calls Mark or Alex stupid jerks. It's unfair and to be honest, even disrespectful to people (like me) who like Mark. Mark is starting to see the bigger picture. It's just a time thing.
I also agree that George needed his second chance. I actually screamed when I read that only Izzie was coming back because to be honest, it was unfair. He was unfinished. His recovery could've been such a good storyline...
I guess I'll have to let that to the fan fic world to fill ;)
Clara,
Again, if you read my previous post about the families I meant BACKGROUND, not who they are right now. It doesn't define you, what you do, or how your life is going to be. It is supposed to be a precedent. Nothing else.
As for Derek,
In 'I Am A Tree', Derek went to Addison's hotel room and apologized. He did said he was sorry about the panties and the prom, he was sorry. Then Mark came out of the bathroom and he left but he did apologize to her.
Then in 'Oh, The Guilt' Derek said to the divorce lawyer that the divorce was his fault, so he wants Addison to have the real estate that they shared. He took full blame to it when Addison also had an affair.
He also apologized to Rose in the season 5 premiere. He only said that he was sorry but he said it.
Apparently, he also apologized to Mer when he batted the ring, since in 'Elevator Love Letter' he said to the Chief that she forgave him about that. Never saw it but it happened.
See? Derek has taken responsibilty here. Since you are no Derek fan you may have missed it but he has owned up for it.
And the Derek and Rose thing? I meant that Derek realizing his mistake was having credit for me. He finally realized his crap. That is not something easy to do.
Emotional cheating = physical cheating. It is still cheating, so whether it is sleeping with someone else or telling them that they love them, while being with someone else, is still cheating.
To be honest, Mer DID had the fault here for the season 4 break up. She wanted to do everything on her terms. She hurt him pretty bad and Derek was the dog behind her. True, Mer had been damaged by Derek but he tried to be there. At that point I felt that Derek was just there when Meredith felt like it.
I never said I was excusing Derek's actions more than seeing through them. I agree, what he did was wrong but so is what George did. Why should George be excused and not Derek? Cheating is cheating. It is wrong. I go to these extents to defend my favorite character for being attacked for something that is very common in GA and every character has done but seems so unforgivable for him.
Also, the Chief giving him a second chance IS a huge deal. My school (and University for that matter) don't forgive that point. Plus, school and college aren't real life, it's not how it works, specially when it comes to Medicine where people's lives are at stake. Do you think you would feel the same way if it had been Lexie or Sadie? I bet not, but George worked up and made his case but first, he had to prove to the Chief that he did deserve a second chance.
Mem4, Now I understand what you tried to said. But I already tried to join the forum and be a member but when a registered, they never sending the message to active my count. I will tried again.
Sarah, come and join the George and TR appreciation thread Cindy (greysaddiction) put up on the forum.
Marie-Eve Says:
August 24th, 2009 4:39 PM
I think it's funny we are having this conversation here about George being ignroed and feeling so alone, because I just reread this George fic today about his last days and how alone he felt.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5105587/1/Last_of_Days
Somehow, George did get lost after he failed his internship exam. I don't think his friends stopped caring, but I think they did forget about him a little and forgot to remind him they cared.
It's funny because this fic clearly doesn't portray George as perfect because he wasn't, but it still shows how much loneliness he went through in the end.
That is what I can't forgive Shonda. That George, who used to be the glue of the fab 5, died feeling so excluded and alone.
They erased George the last season and erased all his relationships. That is what I can't forgive.
George is a hero for saving that woman, but, to me, he is a hero for always caring so much and always being there for those around him.
I love the other characters (well, maybe not Alex that much, but then I don't hate him either), but to me there is something very special about George that I just don't see in the others.
He just had such a big heart, and I think he deserved so much more happiness than he had. It feels they had all their share of happiness, except for him. There was Izzie, but this lasted so brief a time.
sarah Says:
August 24th, 2009 4:29 PM
Ok, like I said I totally agree with Vella but also with jesee, Gabi, Pam and Merry it is obviously because we are george' fans and we defend him because honestly, is what we think.
Anuflas:
That doesn't mean that I not agree with you to, because at the end of the day these character are human and make mistakes ALL of then so we agree with that. When I defend George I'm not said that he is better than everyone ulse. And yes, I defend George because I'm a huge fan of him and you defend Alex and Derek because they are your favorites. It's fine. But, still you agree with me in some things because you like George and I agree with in some things about Alex and Derek. But I like Derek I don't like Alex.
So I think we completely understood
Like I said, I like Derek and a little Mark but I don't like Alex so, of course they aren't my favorites. But George had many qualites that the other don't have and I love him for that.
I think Mark was a jerk, who sleep with every women that is placed in front. But, now I have to admit that he change, he is different. I think that with time he actually fell in love with Lexie. And he is an excellent plastic surgeon. So now, after everything he did is happy!.
Alex was a jerk, that he had a horrible childhood, but still think he is a jerk and a little inmature. But I admit that he change a lot and because of that he deserve to be happy and he is. Now, Alex has to Izzie. Despite she is dying from cancer and Alex is suffered because of that, they still have the chance to be happy.
Derek is more mature that Mark and Alex in my opinion. His wife was unfaithful with another man so,Derek left Addison and met Mer. He fell in love of her but he didn't cheated his wife, they were seperated. Because 11 years of marriage return again with Addison but he could not forget
Mer and he slept with her and cheated Addison ( a little mistake). Later he broke-up with Mer and he start to date with Rose ( A Huge mistake) knowing that he had feelings for Grey. And final Derek and Mer were reconciled . And now they have a mature and beatiful relation. They married with post-it and probably (if Shonda wants) they will be very happy and have kids.
So, the three made a lot of mistake but they have positive things, just like you said Anuflas. And George also (and you agree with that). But the problem and like I said in another post they still have the chance to be happy, to be better, to change things, George doesn't had that chance. George deserve a lot a things that he never had and he will never had. And for the moral part, I think that he and Derek were very similar.
But, we all agree here that the final is the same, George will never had another chance, he didn't had with Callie, Izzie or Lexie. And in the last moment we didn't know what he was feeling. The only thing we know for sure is that he feel so lonely that he decided to join the Army, something that I think The George we all know it had never done because her best friend and soul mate (because to me it isn't Denny) is dying of cancer. He would have remained by her side, as it should do all last season, but the writers decided to do invicible.Cristina was at his side but not George, Come on!!!!!!
Last, I totally agree with Merry when she said " George jumped in front of a bus and died for a stranger. That automatically makes him better than anyone on this show. Do you honestly think Mark would die to save a stranger? He'd be afraid to ruin his face he's so in love with". That is so true. George is Heroe, he always was.
Clara Says:
August 24th, 2009 2:17 PM
George said I love you and then he told Callie about it. He didn,t sleep with Izzie then tell Callie.
I am sorry, but the fact that Derek cheated on Addison again without even telling Mer he loved her makes it worse. It makes it seem like all it was was sex.
George told Izzie he loved ehr because she deserved an answer. He waited 17 days to answer her, LOL, and she told him she was suffering and she deserved an answer.
Thenh he wouldn't even kiss her until he told Callie.
How can you compare that to Derek seducing Mer and doing it with ehr with his wife two feets away?
He took responsibility, when was that? I don't remember him even apollogizing for it.
He didn't say he was sorry to Addison.He didn't tell Mer he had made a mistake.
Callie excused George and he refsued to take that, and insisted on taking the full blame.
Derek put the full blame on Adison.
Then when Derek cheated on Mer with Rose, he blamed it all on Mer too and called her dysfunctional and all kind of lame names for it.
I love MerDer and Meredith but Mer deserve better than Derek most of the time.
You say we make excuses for George but you seem to be going to really big lengths to excuse Derek?
In what world is telling someone you love them worse than sleeping with someone else?
Derek cheated on Addison twice.
Yes the way Derek acted with Rose is such a comeback, rolls eyes.
Oh and one other difference. Derek chose Addison and then went after Mer, sniffing after her like a dog all the time.
George didn't go after Izzie, she went after him and he finally couldn't resist his heart.
Mer is the George here. Derek followed her and she finally couldn't resist him any longer.
Clara Says:
August 24th, 2009 2:09 PM
I totally disagree about George having a more stable family. His family was amazing, but they couldn't support him or help him grow because they didn't get him at all. He was too different. They loved him, but they didn't understand him. His dad said so himself. George said it. His mom overprotected him too because she knew how sweet and sensitive he was, which led him to even more difficulty dealing with everything.
He had to learn to do this by himself, and he did mature in the end into this very strong, wise person but he had to teach himself.
George was a hero. He stood by the nurses when noone else did, he helped Bailey give birth, he fought for Mer to get a second chance and he died to save a stranger.
He was by far the real McDreamy.
As for the chief, I don't think it's some big deal he gave George a second chance. Like George said, he deserved one. He failed by one point, and he should have been told this.
In school, if you fail by one point, most of the time, they let you pass anyway.
As for George being perfect, I never thought he was. He made a mistake with Izzie, even though I love them. He shouldn,t have married Callie either. I didn,t like how he ran away at times or how he let others walk all over him instead of fighting for himself more. He tended to run away, like he did when he elarned Izzie had cancer and Callie had to tell him to go to her. He made mistakes, he wasn't perfect.
I do think though he didn't have one mean bone in his body and he never hurt someone intentionally. I don't think the same can be said for others.
Why do you insist on finding all the wrong things done to George? Is there a real point or reason that it is necessary to find a way to degrade the other characters that are liked by other people?
Look, I'm not excusing Derek out here. He was wrong. Prom sex was wrong (although such a great scene), jealousy was wrong, it was all wrong. He didn't have a reason to do all of that but he has certainly made a comeback. He took responsibility, he has made amends, or at least trying to. For that, I give him credit.
George blew off Izzie's intent but he gave in at the end. He even said I love you to Izzie WAY long before Derek did to Mer. He gave in. The 'I love you' scene is the non-physical version of the prom sex.
My only point is that George is as flawed as anyone else.
In the Rose issue, Derek did get critized (A LOT) and he even felt guilty about it. In the elevator, Derek told Mark he was a whore because he slept with Rose KNOWING her feelings and he could only think of Meredith. He did know, he did felt guilty. He did apologized at the end.
I hated Rose but I knew that Derek was doing wrong here. He is afraid of loneliness and he does stupid things like her, for once.
Why is it unfair to critiized George? I do it when people do it to Derek and Mark. They are not awful people. Izzie said it: Just because people do horrible things, doesn't mean they're horrible people.
I DO know that George is a good person but so is Derek, Mark, and Alex. They all are good but they have fallouts and mistakes. They're human beings.
Merry Says:
August 24th, 2009 2:00 PM
Are you kidding me? There is a huge difference. I am a huge Gizzie fan, you are not, so maybe I paid more attention to their scenes. George kept blowing Izzie off. He told ehr to leave him alone. The only time he did go to her is because she was sick and needed him. The rest of the time, he stayed away from her.
Maybe you missed him transferring to Mercy West so he wouldn't see her? Then he failed the exam and was forced to stay here, but he was willing to change hspital not to see Izzie.
Derek, on the other hand, followed Meredith around all the time even though she repeatedly told him to leave her alone. Then he got jealous when she moved on and basically called ehr a whore when he's the one who had picked Addison over her. They then had the affair at the prom. George and Izzie didn't sleep together again until he had told Callie the truth. Remember the scene in the hall where theyw ant to kiss but they on't because he had to tell callie first? Derek didn't have the same thoughtts for Addison and they were married 11 years, not three weeks.
I don't care what Mark and Alex went through. They found professional success, love and happiness, three things George never found.
Mark and Alex were total jerks until they got Lexie and izzie too, and they still are many times.
George got nothing and he remained a sweet person.
George jumped in front of a bus and died for a stranger. That automatically makes him better than anyone on this show. Do you honestly think Mark would die to save a stranger? He'd be afraid to ruin his face he's so in love with.
Mer being there at the end doesn't negate the hours he spent alone when they didn't even recognize him. I did the moment I saw his eyes, so why didn't they? Maybe because he was invisible to them all year.
So what that it was Mer's wedding initially? Izzie still asked Cristina, not George, to be at her side. Mer still asked Alex.
There was ample time to ask George. At the least when George brought her down the aisle, Izzie could have asked him to stay with them and not sent him back all alone.
And they didn't just forget him at the wedding, they forgot him since he flunked the intern exam. I can count on one hand the number of scenes he had with them. It was the fab 4 all year. George was completely cut out of their scenes all season. So yes they forgot him, hence the don't forget to tell those you love you love them speecvh. They loved him, but they forgot him and that made him feel so alone, he joined the army to feel some human warmth somewhere.
The issue on the family thing is absolutely getting out of context. Read again: I never said it was the defining factor that makes you happy, it just a part of the formation of your personality and character.
Nature vs. Nurture? I guess most of you see it as Nature. I see it in both ways.
It HELPS the formation of the person that you become. It's the earliest support group you have. Later comes friends, girl/boyfriends, etc.
Once again, I don't mean that it is why George is less suffered but about his personality traits have become.
George had a stable support group in the beginning, the rest didn't. The relationship now is obviously different. Again, just a background check.
Pam Says:
August 24th, 2009 1:50 PM
Soso, I didn't know Mer had been raped by George against her will. I thought she had decided by herself to sleep with him. I wasn't aware George getting into her room and telling her he loved her made Meredith have to jump into bed with him. Silly me!
I also have to roll my eyes at people thinking having parents who love you automatically means you had a happy childhood.
My brother has me and parents who love me, but he was ridiculed in school just like George was for being different and I can tell you he suffered a lot from it.
I would hear him cry himself to sleep.
That's what George went through his entire life.
Alex had a bad childhood, but now he has Izzie and Meredith and friends and a great career.
He is married to the girl of his dreams even though he treated her like dirt most of the time.
George got what? Girl after girl dumping him for any guy who Shonda had the hots for.
Friends who never spent any time with him or gave him a moment's thought.
He was miserable in the end, like he was probably miserable in his childhood.
I bet he cried himself to sleep too like my brother did when he was young.
He did have a little moment of happiness with Izzie. She finally made him feel loved and worthy, but then Shonda had to listen to those shallow fans who just didn't think George was hot enough to be loved by Izzie or Lexie or any girl really.
Like someone else mentioned, George didn't become all angry and bitter about it. He still was there for eevryone of his friends when they needed him, and he never took them to task for ignoring him most of the time.
That's the kind of person he was, and that's why so many of us are so angry at the treatment he received.
I am going to put a stop here. I have no idea where you read that Derek, Izzie or any of the other characters weren't critized about their mistakes. If anything, it's the only thing that I read.
Derek DID take full responsibility for his cheating. He went to put an end to his marriage and gave Addison most of their goods made in their marriage. Addison, guilty that she hadn't told him the entire truth, didn't want them and offered him their house in NYC. At the end, they both took responsibility for their mistakes and they did feel guilty. Hence the episode 3x05 'Oh, The Guilt'.
The drinking is NO excuse. Derek was also drunk when he first slept with Meredith. So was she. Plus, it was Addison the one who cheated first. Difference? None. Both did wrong here. I am not excusing Derek but I can't blame him fully. THAT is me.
Obviously, when Callie married Geroge, they were both in questionable mental state. Callie did wrong in saying yes. She knew he was mourning, why the hell did she go through it?
George DID had an emotional affair too. He wasn't physically sleeping with Izzie but he was pondering his feelings toward her. Mer didn't know that Derek was married, Izzie did know that George was. Izzie did wrong in pursuing George just as Derek was. So were Mer and George for following it. I can't honestly see the difference between both characters.
Derek continues to get critized for this but it is suddenly forgotten about George because Izzie was his soulmate (I still believe it was Denny). Mer is Derek's, so what is the difference? Why Derek is more horrible than George when they both did the same thing?
I was the one that suggested about having a good family helps you out, because it does. It is not the factor that makes you happy but it does help. I also said that the difference was that George left his problems at school. Mark, Alex, and to an extent Derek, had them at home. It had to be tough.
I am blessed with an awesome family but I have really good friends that struggle with theirs. They are making their way the best they can, just as Alex or Mark. It shaped them and they have becomed the person that they are today. Does it mean that I fit with them? Hell no. However, whatever choice I decide to make, I know they'll be behind my back whether they approve or not.
The soldier had just come from war. If Owen isn't a prime example of what happens when you come from war, then I don't know what it. He didn't even called his mother to say he was back. War is way different than normal life. Hope that we can get more insight in this.
Your entire post is a perfect example on fans being easy on George. I defend Derek, Mark, and Alex but I certainly have critized them too. They have done WRONG things that may or may not be forgivable. Alex saying that he married Izzie just because he though she was going to die? Really? That was wrong. Derek not telling Mer about Addie? WRONG! Mark and Addison? WRONG! See? Love Derek but see his wrong side.
I understand some of Alex's actions because my dad sometimes acted like that. It doesn't mean he's the worst dad ever. He has changed most of his attitude thanks to my mom, which is what I expect that Izzie will do. So yeah, I get it.
I don't think that the show will be promoting physical abuse. I KNEW she wasn't going to get hurt. That is just pure speculation.
So..ok. George suffered...here's the track record of the some of them.
Mark - Adopeted by the family of his best friend because his own family didn't give a crap about him. The woman he fell in love with was the wife of his best friend who turned him down at the end, plus the abortion of his baby.
Derek - Murdered father, cheating ex-wife with the best friend who had an affair longer than he though, he had to hold his girlfriend's dead body who tried to commit suicide (as much denial she is in about this), feeling like a constant failure.
Alex - Abused by his father, had to deal with 'crazy chicks' (as he put it), almost dead wife...
Mer - EOA mother who didn't want her, father who didn't bother to look for her and yep, hit her, unstable relationships, tequila advocate...etc.
ALL have gone through tough times. All of them. George is no more different than the rest of them.
His friends didn't forget about him. It was originally Mer's wedding, not Izzie's. What? He would be the MOH? Derek already had his best man chosen...should've he been forced to choose George because he's Mer's friend? Burke didn't choose him either. George was the friend from the bride (in both cases) not the groom.
George didn't die alone. Mer was holding his hand. He died with one of his best friends there. He wasn't alone.
My final point after this loooooong ramble is that George is no beter than anyone. All of them had their bad moments and their good moments. They all suffered. He'll definitely be missed and we shall remember the good times that he had WITHOUT degrading the other characters. It's unfair and in George's standards, he wouldn't want that.
I think that this show has protrayed men in a wrong way too.
Gabi Says:
August 24th, 2009 1:25 PM
Wow, soso, I guess you really didn't read vella's wonderful post.
If you had, you would know that having a mom and dad doesn't solve all your problems.
George was rejected since he was a child just for being different.
That would screw anyone up and would make a lot of people very bitter and angry (watch all the mass school shooting in the States, they're all from kids who felt rejected by their peers and classmates), yet George never became bitter and he always cared about everyone.
He forgave Meredith for hurting him, something Lexie could never do, and Lexie had mommy and daddy who loved her and was cheerleader and class rpesident and everything. Yet she couldn't forgive George for not loving her when George forgave Mer.
The fact that George didn't become bitter after all the rejection and humiliation make him one amazing man for me.
He is the only one of all those men who was man enough to apologize when he made a mistake too.
For the record, Derek knew Rose was in love with him when he slept with her and he knew he was in love with Mer. That's pretty cruel, if you ask me, but then it's true if was just hated Rose. I guess playing with her emotions don't count.
Derek rarely gets criticized and when he does, it's over his horrile treatment of Mer, Addison and Rose.
Mark gets criticized because he's an immature, cruel jerk.
They deserve to be criticized. It's hardly unfair.
George on the other hand is a super nice guy who never hurt anyone on purpose, so yes it is extremely unfair to criticize him.
Josee Says:
August 24th, 2009 1:18 PM
And yet George didn't force Meredith to sleep with him. He made his acse as to why he thought he was a better guy for ehr and in Mer's words, she wanted to be in love with a guy like George not Derek so she decided to go for it. He didn't rape her or pressure her in any way, yet he took the full blame for this.
Mer decided to kiss him and go for it.
Yes it was desperate. People do desperate things when they're in love, like Izzie begging George to leave Callie for ehr and Mer begging Derek to pick her, choose her, love ehr over his wife.
Mer had the option to say no, she didn't.
For some reason when Lexie did all those desperate things to get George, she was this sweet in love girl but when George did the same with Mer, it made him the bad guy.
George wad a bad guy for ignoring Lexie, but Mer wasn't a bad person for ignoring George's feelings for two years.
I am sick and tired of George receiving double standard and being judged harsher than anyone for the very same mistakes.
Anuflas, Alex is most often mean and cruel. He called Izzie a bitch and stupid this year. He yelled at her when she was dying because she didn't make the decision he likes.
Mark treats his interns like dirt, except for Lexie, and that,s because he's banging her.
He made joke about George returning in a body bag and humiliated him at the beginning of the season when he made a simple mistake.
Those characters are cruel for the sake of being cruel. When Alex and Mark get criticize, it is most often not for stupid reasons. It is for very valid reasons. Now George is the one who keeps being bashed for the silliest things.
Alex and Mark deserve all the bashing they get and more.
I never said YOU personally but in general. Alex, Mark, and Derek are constantly being hit for (sometimes) ridiculous reasons. Everybody makes mistakes. I have no idea why they are the bad guys after all.
So I guess that now you have an idea how I feel everytime I see a negative comment about Mark or Derek (my fav. characters). Unfair, isn't it?
As for the Chief, I think you're right there. Richard has a closer relationship to George, so he'll give him a priority.
The relationship between the Chief and Mer can be best summarized by Derek in Not Good At Saying Sorry: The Chief is the most leveled and professional guy except when it comes to Meredith. He considers her family, for what it's worth.
It can come as an obvious difference. Cristina resents this about Mer. Remember their fight? She told Mer that she has the Chief's ear. Mer could be the voice of the residents to him.
I'd like this relationship to be explored, even more now that the Chief has finally apologized. I love that scene.
soso Says:
August 24th, 2009 12:54 PM
george knew perfectly well that Mer had fallen for Der really hard, and in no way was she ever going to feel that way about him. He went into Mer's bedroom, not the other way round. That was an act of a desperate man and he admitted it.
george probably had the best most balanced upbringing of alll of MAGIC, cos he had his mum and dad there, so he wasn't screwed up like Mer.
sarah Says:
August 24th, 2009 12:24 PM
Vella, totally agree. You said better than me!. Well done!.
Simmard Says:
August 24th, 2009 11:57 AM
The fans love George more because being mean to him is the exception, while being mean to Alex and Mark is the norm and being nice is the exception.
George got mad but in the end, he always came through to help anyone who needed it, even the stranger he ended up dying for.
Vella Says:
August 24th, 2009 11:49 AM
Yes george made fun of Alex, the guy who had humiliated him since day one, but in the end, George helped Alex do the exam and apss it despite the fact he had cheated on Izzie. When george failed, Alex gave him away to the interns, ridiculed him and didn't help him at all when the time came to do his exams again. So yes George was better than Alex because in the end, George helped Alex retake his exam and Alex didn't help George.
George was mean with Mer6 I love Mer but she ahd her equal share of blame in this. Everyone, even Cristina, knew he was in love with her and she was too in her own world to even notice that. She started to sleep with him, knowing she didn't love him, knowing it would give him false hope, knowing it would hurt him. Yes he shouldn't have slept with ehr knowing she didn't love him but she also should have been more aware of his feelings (he was her friend) and not slept with him. In the end, George took FULL blame for the entire thing when he had only half the blame. Lexie had a crush on him for five minutes, didn't tell him and then told him to screw himself when he wouldn't love her the way she wanted when he didn't even know she felt that way. He never led her on. He never went to bed with her knowing he didn't love her, and she jumped into bed with another guy the day after. Sjhe never admitted she had any blame for going after a guy who didn't love her. If george was to blame for pursuing someone who didn,t love him, so was Lexie for doing the saame and blaming him for not loving her. But unlike George, Lexie never admitted responsbility and never forgave George. George, on the other hand, forgave Mer, took all the blame, stood up for her to her dad even when he was still mad and made sure she got a second shot at the exam.
George had just went through a divorce and a breakup and a failed exqam when Lexie had a thing for him. You ncan't blame him for not knowing her feelings, and at least he didn't got sleep with her and cry during the whole thing.
He was an amazing friend to Mer after thsoe events while Lexie dumped George completely when he needed a friend the most when he wouldn't love her like she wanted.
So again that makes George a better person than Lexie.
Cristina has always been a total mean witch to George. She helped Burke operate with a shaky hand, which could have killed patients. He was totally right to be mad at her. If he had done so, she would have treated him 100 times worse and you know it. Cristina and Burke both should have been fired. They put so many patients at risk, and they could have killed George's dad. And George should be all sweet to her? Are you kidding me? The girl who called him 007 and Bambi and humiliated him all the time. why? There's a difference between being nice and being a doormat.
You act like he married Callie intending on cheating on her. He didn't. He was half out crazy of his mind with grief when he proposed and Callie, instead of seeing that, made him elope before he could come to his senses or someone could stop him from making a decision when he was not in his right mind. She suggested the elopement. He was drunk when he slept with Izzie, so much so he didn,t remember anything. Wghen he remembered, he felt so guilty, he tried to transfer to another hospital not to see Izzie and be tempted. Compare that to Derek who chose Addison, then had an emotional affair with Mer all throughout, doing everything to be with ehr at all time, then slept with her while Mer's boyfriend and his wife were just outside. He never felt guilty about it. Everyone on this show had affairs, but George was the only one to take full responsibility for it and feel guilty about it even though the others all had long affairs while sober and he had a one-night stand while drunk. So yes his feeling guilty and taking full responsibiluity does make him a better person.
I think George was easily the most tortured one of the gang. His family wasn't horrible but they didn't understand him. He felt different and lonely. I think someone had the same discussion with you before, so i can't believe you are writing the same things about having a happy family means you're happy. It doesn,t. Not if everyone is different from you and they don't understand you. George felt alienated from his family. He said so himself. They loved him but they didn't understand him. George was also rejected by his peers at school. He was humiliated by them all the time. His girlfriend at prom dumped him for another guy. He was a reject back there, and he felt different. Do you know how many people in high school kill themselves because they feel alone and different? Most of them have happy families who love them but don't get them. Most of them are not abused physically or emotionally. Loneliness and rejection cause depresion and many suicides. Maybe you never felt this way, so you don't know it.
Yes Alex got beaten up, but Alex got Izzie and he got real friends.
George didn't have a love that lasted. His friends all abandoned him in the last season. He was alone and felt unneeded. Did you see his face when the soldier talked about wanting to be in the army because it was the only place where he felt like he belonged, was loved and needed? George felt like nobody cared about him anymore, he felt like he didn't belong. That is why he joined the army.
His frie nds forgot him. Did you see his face at the wedding when he was the only member of the fab 5 not invited to be part of the wedding party and when he saw that everyone had someone to love except him?
George was alone most of his life. He felt rejected most of his life, and that to me is one of the worst suffering and pain you can go through.
His life came to an abrupt end? No his life came to an end when he saved another girl who ignored him to look for someone more conventionally hotter. He died after suffering one last rejection in a long, long line of rejections.
Yes, Alex and Mark had a really hard past but they have a really great present. They have great professional success, found women to spend the rest of their lives with and are accepted by their peers and have real friends.
George had none of that. I don't get why you can't understand that. If you go for the alst five years alone. George got dubbed 007 and was mocked by the whole hospital, he got syphillis, his dream girl cried in bed with him, his dad died, he got divorced, he lost Izzie, the love of his life, to someone he hated, he failed his exam, had to redo the internship and wqatch as his friends moved on without him and forgot him, his ex became a lesbian, Lexie stopped being his friend when he wouldn't fall in love with her, he was stuck alone in a sucky craptapartment, he became a trauma surgeon only to love five patients in a row, and then he got run over by a bus trying to save a totally shallow twit who wouldn't give him the time of day. He lost his arm, was disfigured, suffered alone for hours while none of his friends recognized him at all and had to hear them call him weak and make jokes about him dying in the army.
Alex, Mark and Derek all are hotshot doctors with loves and friends. George died alone on a table.
So yes George did have a harder time than anyone else those five years and while everyone else got to have a happy ending and true love, he never got a minute of happiness.
Yes he made a few mistakes and wasn't always perfect but he always took full responsibility for each one of his mistakes which is more than you can say for anyone else,and I can say he was nice 99% of the time.
Fans are easier on George? Really? Is thatw ay George keeps being condemned for his one mistake with Izzie but nobody says a word about Alex screwing a married mother or Derek sleeping around on Addison twice or the chief having an affair for eyars. I think people are harder on george than anyone. The others act like jerks and they say, oh it's just how Mark or Alex are. George does one and he gets called a monster when he's nicer than any of thsoe guys could ever dream to be.
Alex gets no credit for me. People get abused when they're young, and thyey don't all become jerks. My husband was beaten by his dad, and he is the sweetest most respectful person you could ever meet.
He thinks Alex is a huge bully and coward who uses his abusive past as an excuse not to grow up.
I was terrified he would hurt Izzie in the finale when he yelled at her. What kind of loser yells at a dying person? And being scared is no excuse. Izzie is the love of George's life and he was terrified, yet he was so tender and sweet with her when she asked him what to do.
That showed to me George was the man for Izzie, not Alex, and that George would always be a trillion times the man Alex is.
sarah Says:
August 24th, 2009 10:59 AM
Anuflas:
If I said that George was the character who suffered the most I correct, he wasn't, but he did had a very difficult life, for example: the death of his father. And he doesn't deserve a death like that. And yes, Mark, Derek and Alex made mistakes but I also think that they have many positive things. I NEVER said that they mistakes are more unforgivable than George's. I think that all people have the chance to doing things the right way and have a happy life. But the difference between them and George if that they will have the chance to be happy. George is death, ok. These 5 years I saw him suffer more than happy. And in this last year I didn't know if he was happy or unhappy. Do yo know?
What I wanted to said in my post is that I agree with Ace about the Chief, so if I wasn't clear, I repeat.
I like George, I said many times that he was and is my favorite character, so probably I take things too seriously. But I still think that said all George's mistakes just like that or the people who had be mad it's not right, I didn't liked. I was agreed with everything Ace said until a read that. I think that Ace should not said that, it was out of context. I don't like the way Ace said. It wasn't necessary. We all know that ALL the character made mistakes. Point.
And I think that George's earned the chief respect after this 5 years. The cheif respect George more than Izzie and Alex because he have a better relation with him than with them. It was an example and my opinion. The chief respect Mer for other reasons but not professionally. He take things a different way when is about Mer.I should not be mentioned because I knew that people could misinterpret.
All I want to say is that you're absolutely right, in an objective POV, about George and the Chief. Excellent post! :D
sarah,
I think that what Ace was trying to make a point at, is that, George is also flawed. It's not out of context, it's just pointing out the truth.
I've seen numerous attacks towards Mark, Derek, and Alex for not being like George and that is, too, unfair to point out only their mistakes. Hardly, I find positive comments about these three, specially Mark and Alex. Derek has his moments but he isn't a favorite either.
They are also human but their mistakes are apparently more unforgivable than George's. It is also unfair that this has to be what it is only known from them. Alex has suffered highly and Derek and Mark have gone through a lot of crap too. Why do they have to be punished and George doesn't?
I also disagree that George was the most suffered character on the show. If anyone, he had a slightly better life than the rest of the interns. No cancer, suicide attempts, or horrible family that didn't treat him right. His life came to an abrupt ending but he lived the best he could. THAT is what should be remembered.
I liked George. He was funny, smart, loyal, and a very good doctor. He'll definitely be missed.
As for the Chief and Mer, I think that their relationship is different but it doesn't mean that he has a higher respect for her. If you remember in the season premiere, Richard was lamenting to Derek how he went soft after Mer joined the program. He feels responsible for much of her troubled childhood and he even blames her for HIS failure in work. Doesn't mean that he has less respect but he sees her more as a daughter type of figure than the Chief type. He has made huge exceptions for her for being Ellis' daughter and (now) Derek's wife.
August 24th, 2009 7:29 PM
Of course I would have wanted Sadie or Lexie to get a second chance even if I hate them. George faiuled by one point, because he was worried about Mer and got distracted. If Mer got a second chance, he deserved one too especially when he got distracted worrying about a friend, and yes I would feel that way about every character.
I don't think the others are evil. I love Derek (he is my second fave after George and I adore MerDer), but I do think that about Mark.
I use to like him until this season, but he was really at his worst this year. Being with Lexie is making him unlikeable, but fair is fair and I won't go on bashing him for the sake of his fans.
George deserved better. He had a lonely childhood and a lonely last year of his life, and even a lonely death. There is nothing worse than that especially with someone as lovable and kind as him.
August 24th, 2009 6:12 PM
sarah,
It's all good. My only issue was the fact that apparently the other men are evil human beings. They're not. Obviously I will stand up for them but it doesn't mean that they are excused or that what they did was right. I just want for people to see this objectively.
I understand that all George's fans are upset, and they should. However, I do not agree when someone calls Mark or Alex stupid jerks. It's unfair and to be honest, even disrespectful to people (like me) who like Mark. Mark is starting to see the bigger picture. It's just a time thing.
I also agree that George needed his second chance. I actually screamed when I read that only Izzie was coming back because to be honest, it was unfair. He was unfinished. His recovery could've been such a good storyline...
I guess I'll have to let that to the fan fic world to fill ;)
Clara,
Again, if you read my previous post about the families I meant BACKGROUND, not who they are right now. It doesn't define you, what you do, or how your life is going to be. It is supposed to be a precedent. Nothing else.
As for Derek,
In 'I Am A Tree', Derek went to Addison's hotel room and apologized. He did said he was sorry about the panties and the prom, he was sorry. Then Mark came out of the bathroom and he left but he did apologize to her.
Then in 'Oh, The Guilt' Derek said to the divorce lawyer that the divorce was his fault, so he wants Addison to have the real estate that they shared. He took full blame to it when Addison also had an affair.
He also apologized to Rose in the season 5 premiere. He only said that he was sorry but he said it.
Apparently, he also apologized to Mer when he batted the ring, since in 'Elevator Love Letter' he said to the Chief that she forgave him about that. Never saw it but it happened.
See? Derek has taken responsibilty here. Since you are no Derek fan you may have missed it but he has owned up for it.
And the Derek and Rose thing? I meant that Derek realizing his mistake was having credit for me. He finally realized his crap. That is not something easy to do.
Emotional cheating = physical cheating. It is still cheating, so whether it is sleeping with someone else or telling them that they love them, while being with someone else, is still cheating.
To be honest, Mer DID had the fault here for the season 4 break up. She wanted to do everything on her terms. She hurt him pretty bad and Derek was the dog behind her. True, Mer had been damaged by Derek but he tried to be there. At that point I felt that Derek was just there when Meredith felt like it.
I never said I was excusing Derek's actions more than seeing through them. I agree, what he did was wrong but so is what George did. Why should George be excused and not Derek? Cheating is cheating. It is wrong. I go to these extents to defend my favorite character for being attacked for something that is very common in GA and every character has done but seems so unforgivable for him.
Also, the Chief giving him a second chance IS a huge deal. My school (and University for that matter) don't forgive that point. Plus, school and college aren't real life, it's not how it works, specially when it comes to Medicine where people's lives are at stake. Do you think you would feel the same way if it had been Lexie or Sadie? I bet not, but George worked up and made his case but first, he had to prove to the Chief that he did deserve a second chance.
August 24th, 2009 5:37 PM
Mem4:
Yes, now if I received the message. Great!
August 24th, 2009 5:28 PM
Mem4, Now I understand what you tried to said. But I already tried to join the forum and be a member but when a registered, they never sending the message to active my count. I will tried again.
August 24th, 2009 5:17 PM
Mem4, How I do that?, where I can find it?
August 24th, 2009 4:47 PM
Sarah, come and join the George and TR appreciation thread Cindy (greysaddiction) put up on the forum.
August 24th, 2009 4:39 PM
I think it's funny we are having this conversation here about George being ignroed and feeling so alone, because I just reread this George fic today about his last days and how alone he felt.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5105587/1/Last_of_Days
Somehow, George did get lost after he failed his internship exam. I don't think his friends stopped caring, but I think they did forget about him a little and forgot to remind him they cared.
It's funny because this fic clearly doesn't portray George as perfect because he wasn't, but it still shows how much loneliness he went through in the end.
That is what I can't forgive Shonda. That George, who used to be the glue of the fab 5, died feeling so excluded and alone.
They erased George the last season and erased all his relationships. That is what I can't forgive.
George is a hero for saving that woman, but, to me, he is a hero for always caring so much and always being there for those around him.
I love the other characters (well, maybe not Alex that much, but then I don't hate him either), but to me there is something very special about George that I just don't see in the others.
He just had such a big heart, and I think he deserved so much more happiness than he had. It feels they had all their share of happiness, except for him. There was Izzie, but this lasted so brief a time.
August 24th, 2009 4:29 PM
Ok, like I said I totally agree with Vella but also with jesee, Gabi, Pam and Merry it is obviously because we are george' fans and we defend him because honestly, is what we think.
Anuflas:
That doesn't mean that I not agree with you to, because at the end of the day these character are human and make mistakes ALL of then so we agree with that. When I defend George I'm not said that he is better than everyone ulse. And yes, I defend George because I'm a huge fan of him and you defend Alex and Derek because they are your favorites. It's fine. But, still you agree with me in some things because you like George and I agree with in some things about Alex and Derek. But I like Derek I don't like Alex.
So I think we completely understood
Like I said, I like Derek and a little Mark but I don't like Alex so, of course they aren't my favorites. But George had many qualites that the other don't have and I love him for that.
I think Mark was a jerk, who sleep with every women that is placed in front. But, now I have to admit that he change, he is different. I think that with time he actually fell in love with Lexie. And he is an excellent plastic surgeon. So now, after everything he did is happy!.
Alex was a jerk, that he had a horrible childhood, but still think he is a jerk and a little inmature. But I admit that he change a lot and because of that he deserve to be happy and he is. Now, Alex has to Izzie. Despite she is dying from cancer and Alex is suffered because of that, they still have the chance to be happy.
Derek is more mature that Mark and Alex in my opinion. His wife was unfaithful with another man so,Derek left Addison and met Mer. He fell in love of her but he didn't cheated his wife, they were seperated. Because 11 years of marriage return again with Addison but he could not forget
Mer and he slept with her and cheated Addison ( a little mistake). Later he broke-up with Mer and he start to date with Rose ( A Huge mistake) knowing that he had feelings for Grey. And final Derek and Mer were reconciled . And now they have a mature and beatiful relation. They married with post-it and probably (if Shonda wants) they will be very happy and have kids.
So, the three made a lot of mistake but they have positive things, just like you said Anuflas. And George also (and you agree with that). But the problem and like I said in another post they still have the chance to be happy, to be better, to change things, George doesn't had that chance. George deserve a lot a things that he never had and he will never had. And for the moral part, I think that he and Derek were very similar.
But, we all agree here that the final is the same, George will never had another chance, he didn't had with Callie, Izzie or Lexie. And in the last moment we didn't know what he was feeling. The only thing we know for sure is that he feel so lonely that he decided to join the Army, something that I think The George we all know it had never done because her best friend and soul mate (because to me it isn't Denny) is dying of cancer. He would have remained by her side, as it should do all last season, but the writers decided to do invicible.Cristina was at his side but not George, Come on!!!!!!
Last, I totally agree with Merry when she said " George jumped in front of a bus and died for a stranger. That automatically makes him better than anyone on this show. Do you honestly think Mark would die to save a stranger? He'd be afraid to ruin his face he's so in love with". That is so true. George is Heroe, he always was.
August 24th, 2009 2:17 PM
George said I love you and then he told Callie about it. He didn,t sleep with Izzie then tell Callie.
I am sorry, but the fact that Derek cheated on Addison again without even telling Mer he loved her makes it worse. It makes it seem like all it was was sex.
George told Izzie he loved ehr because she deserved an answer. He waited 17 days to answer her, LOL, and she told him she was suffering and she deserved an answer.
Thenh he wouldn't even kiss her until he told Callie.
How can you compare that to Derek seducing Mer and doing it with ehr with his wife two feets away?
He took responsibility, when was that? I don't remember him even apollogizing for it.
He didn't say he was sorry to Addison.He didn't tell Mer he had made a mistake.
Callie excused George and he refsued to take that, and insisted on taking the full blame.
Derek put the full blame on Adison.
Then when Derek cheated on Mer with Rose, he blamed it all on Mer too and called her dysfunctional and all kind of lame names for it.
I love MerDer and Meredith but Mer deserve better than Derek most of the time.
You say we make excuses for George but you seem to be going to really big lengths to excuse Derek?
In what world is telling someone you love them worse than sleeping with someone else?
Derek cheated on Addison twice.
Yes the way Derek acted with Rose is such a comeback, rolls eyes.
Oh and one other difference. Derek chose Addison and then went after Mer, sniffing after her like a dog all the time.
George didn't go after Izzie, she went after him and he finally couldn't resist his heart.
Mer is the George here. Derek followed her and she finally couldn't resist him any longer.
August 24th, 2009 2:09 PM
I totally disagree about George having a more stable family. His family was amazing, but they couldn't support him or help him grow because they didn't get him at all. He was too different. They loved him, but they didn't understand him. His dad said so himself. George said it. His mom overprotected him too because she knew how sweet and sensitive he was, which led him to even more difficulty dealing with everything.
He had to learn to do this by himself, and he did mature in the end into this very strong, wise person but he had to teach himself.
George was a hero. He stood by the nurses when noone else did, he helped Bailey give birth, he fought for Mer to get a second chance and he died to save a stranger.
He was by far the real McDreamy.
As for the chief, I don't think it's some big deal he gave George a second chance. Like George said, he deserved one. He failed by one point, and he should have been told this.
In school, if you fail by one point, most of the time, they let you pass anyway.
As for George being perfect, I never thought he was. He made a mistake with Izzie, even though I love them. He shouldn,t have married Callie either. I didn,t like how he ran away at times or how he let others walk all over him instead of fighting for himself more. He tended to run away, like he did when he elarned Izzie had cancer and Callie had to tell him to go to her. He made mistakes, he wasn't perfect.
I do think though he didn't have one mean bone in his body and he never hurt someone intentionally. I don't think the same can be said for others.
August 24th, 2009 2:09 PM
Why do you insist on finding all the wrong things done to George? Is there a real point or reason that it is necessary to find a way to degrade the other characters that are liked by other people?
Look, I'm not excusing Derek out here. He was wrong. Prom sex was wrong (although such a great scene), jealousy was wrong, it was all wrong. He didn't have a reason to do all of that but he has certainly made a comeback. He took responsibility, he has made amends, or at least trying to. For that, I give him credit.
George blew off Izzie's intent but he gave in at the end. He even said I love you to Izzie WAY long before Derek did to Mer. He gave in. The 'I love you' scene is the non-physical version of the prom sex.
My only point is that George is as flawed as anyone else.
August 24th, 2009 2:01 PM
In the Rose issue, Derek did get critized (A LOT) and he even felt guilty about it. In the elevator, Derek told Mark he was a whore because he slept with Rose KNOWING her feelings and he could only think of Meredith. He did know, he did felt guilty. He did apologized at the end.
I hated Rose but I knew that Derek was doing wrong here. He is afraid of loneliness and he does stupid things like her, for once.
Why is it unfair to critiized George? I do it when people do it to Derek and Mark. They are not awful people. Izzie said it: Just because people do horrible things, doesn't mean they're horrible people.
I DO know that George is a good person but so is Derek, Mark, and Alex. They all are good but they have fallouts and mistakes. They're human beings.
August 24th, 2009 2:00 PM
Are you kidding me? There is a huge difference. I am a huge Gizzie fan, you are not, so maybe I paid more attention to their scenes. George kept blowing Izzie off. He told ehr to leave him alone. The only time he did go to her is because she was sick and needed him. The rest of the time, he stayed away from her.
Maybe you missed him transferring to Mercy West so he wouldn't see her? Then he failed the exam and was forced to stay here, but he was willing to change hspital not to see Izzie.
Derek, on the other hand, followed Meredith around all the time even though she repeatedly told him to leave her alone. Then he got jealous when she moved on and basically called ehr a whore when he's the one who had picked Addison over her. They then had the affair at the prom. George and Izzie didn't sleep together again until he had told Callie the truth. Remember the scene in the hall where theyw ant to kiss but they on't because he had to tell callie first? Derek didn't have the same thoughtts for Addison and they were married 11 years, not three weeks.
I don't care what Mark and Alex went through. They found professional success, love and happiness, three things George never found.
Mark and Alex were total jerks until they got Lexie and izzie too, and they still are many times.
George got nothing and he remained a sweet person.
George jumped in front of a bus and died for a stranger. That automatically makes him better than anyone on this show. Do you honestly think Mark would die to save a stranger? He'd be afraid to ruin his face he's so in love with.
Mer being there at the end doesn't negate the hours he spent alone when they didn't even recognize him. I did the moment I saw his eyes, so why didn't they? Maybe because he was invisible to them all year.
So what that it was Mer's wedding initially? Izzie still asked Cristina, not George, to be at her side. Mer still asked Alex.
There was ample time to ask George. At the least when George brought her down the aisle, Izzie could have asked him to stay with them and not sent him back all alone.
And they didn't just forget him at the wedding, they forgot him since he flunked the intern exam. I can count on one hand the number of scenes he had with them. It was the fab 4 all year. George was completely cut out of their scenes all season. So yes they forgot him, hence the don't forget to tell those you love you love them speecvh. They loved him, but they forgot him and that made him feel so alone, he joined the army to feel some human warmth somewhere.
August 24th, 2009 1:53 PM
The issue on the family thing is absolutely getting out of context. Read again: I never said it was the defining factor that makes you happy, it just a part of the formation of your personality and character.
Nature vs. Nurture? I guess most of you see it as Nature. I see it in both ways.
It HELPS the formation of the person that you become. It's the earliest support group you have. Later comes friends, girl/boyfriends, etc.
Once again, I don't mean that it is why George is less suffered but about his personality traits have become.
George had a stable support group in the beginning, the rest didn't. The relationship now is obviously different. Again, just a background check.
August 24th, 2009 1:50 PM
Soso, I didn't know Mer had been raped by George against her will. I thought she had decided by herself to sleep with him. I wasn't aware George getting into her room and telling her he loved her made Meredith have to jump into bed with him. Silly me!
I also have to roll my eyes at people thinking having parents who love you automatically means you had a happy childhood.
My brother has me and parents who love me, but he was ridiculed in school just like George was for being different and I can tell you he suffered a lot from it.
I would hear him cry himself to sleep.
That's what George went through his entire life.
Alex had a bad childhood, but now he has Izzie and Meredith and friends and a great career.
He is married to the girl of his dreams even though he treated her like dirt most of the time.
George got what? Girl after girl dumping him for any guy who Shonda had the hots for.
Friends who never spent any time with him or gave him a moment's thought.
He was miserable in the end, like he was probably miserable in his childhood.
I bet he cried himself to sleep too like my brother did when he was young.
He did have a little moment of happiness with Izzie. She finally made him feel loved and worthy, but then Shonda had to listen to those shallow fans who just didn't think George was hot enough to be loved by Izzie or Lexie or any girl really.
Like someone else mentioned, George didn't become all angry and bitter about it. He still was there for eevryone of his friends when they needed him, and he never took them to task for ignoring him most of the time.
That's the kind of person he was, and that's why so many of us are so angry at the treatment he received.
August 24th, 2009 1:48 PM
Vella,
I am going to put a stop here. I have no idea where you read that Derek, Izzie or any of the other characters weren't critized about their mistakes. If anything, it's the only thing that I read.
Derek DID take full responsibility for his cheating. He went to put an end to his marriage and gave Addison most of their goods made in their marriage. Addison, guilty that she hadn't told him the entire truth, didn't want them and offered him their house in NYC. At the end, they both took responsibility for their mistakes and they did feel guilty. Hence the episode 3x05 'Oh, The Guilt'.
The drinking is NO excuse. Derek was also drunk when he first slept with Meredith. So was she. Plus, it was Addison the one who cheated first. Difference? None. Both did wrong here. I am not excusing Derek but I can't blame him fully. THAT is me.
Obviously, when Callie married Geroge, they were both in questionable mental state. Callie did wrong in saying yes. She knew he was mourning, why the hell did she go through it?
George DID had an emotional affair too. He wasn't physically sleeping with Izzie but he was pondering his feelings toward her. Mer didn't know that Derek was married, Izzie did know that George was. Izzie did wrong in pursuing George just as Derek was. So were Mer and George for following it. I can't honestly see the difference between both characters.
Derek continues to get critized for this but it is suddenly forgotten about George because Izzie was his soulmate (I still believe it was Denny). Mer is Derek's, so what is the difference? Why Derek is more horrible than George when they both did the same thing?
I was the one that suggested about having a good family helps you out, because it does. It is not the factor that makes you happy but it does help. I also said that the difference was that George left his problems at school. Mark, Alex, and to an extent Derek, had them at home. It had to be tough.
I am blessed with an awesome family but I have really good friends that struggle with theirs. They are making their way the best they can, just as Alex or Mark. It shaped them and they have becomed the person that they are today. Does it mean that I fit with them? Hell no. However, whatever choice I decide to make, I know they'll be behind my back whether they approve or not.
The soldier had just come from war. If Owen isn't a prime example of what happens when you come from war, then I don't know what it. He didn't even called his mother to say he was back. War is way different than normal life. Hope that we can get more insight in this.
Your entire post is a perfect example on fans being easy on George. I defend Derek, Mark, and Alex but I certainly have critized them too. They have done WRONG things that may or may not be forgivable. Alex saying that he married Izzie just because he though she was going to die? Really? That was wrong. Derek not telling Mer about Addie? WRONG! Mark and Addison? WRONG! See? Love Derek but see his wrong side.
I understand some of Alex's actions because my dad sometimes acted like that. It doesn't mean he's the worst dad ever. He has changed most of his attitude thanks to my mom, which is what I expect that Izzie will do. So yeah, I get it.
I don't think that the show will be promoting physical abuse. I KNEW she wasn't going to get hurt. That is just pure speculation.
So..ok. George suffered...here's the track record of the some of them.
Mark - Adopeted by the family of his best friend because his own family didn't give a crap about him. The woman he fell in love with was the wife of his best friend who turned him down at the end, plus the abortion of his baby.
Derek - Murdered father, cheating ex-wife with the best friend who had an affair longer than he though, he had to hold his girlfriend's dead body who tried to commit suicide (as much denial she is in about this), feeling like a constant failure.
Alex - Abused by his father, had to deal with 'crazy chicks' (as he put it), almost dead wife...
Mer - EOA mother who didn't want her, father who didn't bother to look for her and yep, hit her, unstable relationships, tequila advocate...etc.
ALL have gone through tough times. All of them. George is no more different than the rest of them.
His friends didn't forget about him. It was originally Mer's wedding, not Izzie's. What? He would be the MOH? Derek already had his best man chosen...should've he been forced to choose George because he's Mer's friend? Burke didn't choose him either. George was the friend from the bride (in both cases) not the groom.
George didn't die alone. Mer was holding his hand. He died with one of his best friends there. He wasn't alone.
My final point after this loooooong ramble is that George is no beter than anyone. All of them had their bad moments and their good moments. They all suffered. He'll definitely be missed and we shall remember the good times that he had WITHOUT degrading the other characters. It's unfair and in George's standards, he wouldn't want that.
I think that this show has protrayed men in a wrong way too.
August 24th, 2009 1:25 PM
Wow, soso, I guess you really didn't read vella's wonderful post.
If you had, you would know that having a mom and dad doesn't solve all your problems.
George was rejected since he was a child just for being different.
That would screw anyone up and would make a lot of people very bitter and angry (watch all the mass school shooting in the States, they're all from kids who felt rejected by their peers and classmates), yet George never became bitter and he always cared about everyone.
He forgave Meredith for hurting him, something Lexie could never do, and Lexie had mommy and daddy who loved her and was cheerleader and class rpesident and everything. Yet she couldn't forgive George for not loving her when George forgave Mer.
The fact that George didn't become bitter after all the rejection and humiliation make him one amazing man for me.
He is the only one of all those men who was man enough to apologize when he made a mistake too.
For the record, Derek knew Rose was in love with him when he slept with her and he knew he was in love with Mer. That's pretty cruel, if you ask me, but then it's true if was just hated Rose. I guess playing with her emotions don't count.
Derek rarely gets criticized and when he does, it's over his horrile treatment of Mer, Addison and Rose.
Mark gets criticized because he's an immature, cruel jerk.
They deserve to be criticized. It's hardly unfair.
George on the other hand is a super nice guy who never hurt anyone on purpose, so yes it is extremely unfair to criticize him.
August 24th, 2009 1:18 PM
And yet George didn't force Meredith to sleep with him. He made his acse as to why he thought he was a better guy for ehr and in Mer's words, she wanted to be in love with a guy like George not Derek so she decided to go for it. He didn't rape her or pressure her in any way, yet he took the full blame for this.
Mer decided to kiss him and go for it.
Yes it was desperate. People do desperate things when they're in love, like Izzie begging George to leave Callie for ehr and Mer begging Derek to pick her, choose her, love ehr over his wife.
Mer had the option to say no, she didn't.
For some reason when Lexie did all those desperate things to get George, she was this sweet in love girl but when George did the same with Mer, it made him the bad guy.
George wad a bad guy for ignoring Lexie, but Mer wasn't a bad person for ignoring George's feelings for two years.
I am sick and tired of George receiving double standard and being judged harsher than anyone for the very same mistakes.
Anuflas, Alex is most often mean and cruel. He called Izzie a bitch and stupid this year. He yelled at her when she was dying because she didn't make the decision he likes.
Mark treats his interns like dirt, except for Lexie, and that,s because he's banging her.
He made joke about George returning in a body bag and humiliated him at the beginning of the season when he made a simple mistake.
Those characters are cruel for the sake of being cruel. When Alex and Mark get criticize, it is most often not for stupid reasons. It is for very valid reasons. Now George is the one who keeps being bashed for the silliest things.
Alex and Mark deserve all the bashing they get and more.
August 24th, 2009 1:04 PM
A couple of things:
Sarah,
I never said YOU personally but in general. Alex, Mark, and Derek are constantly being hit for (sometimes) ridiculous reasons. Everybody makes mistakes. I have no idea why they are the bad guys after all.
So I guess that now you have an idea how I feel everytime I see a negative comment about Mark or Derek (my fav. characters). Unfair, isn't it?
As for the Chief, I think you're right there. Richard has a closer relationship to George, so he'll give him a priority.
The relationship between the Chief and Mer can be best summarized by Derek in Not Good At Saying Sorry: The Chief is the most leveled and professional guy except when it comes to Meredith. He considers her family, for what it's worth.
It can come as an obvious difference. Cristina resents this about Mer. Remember their fight? She told Mer that she has the Chief's ear. Mer could be the voice of the residents to him.
I'd like this relationship to be explored, even more now that the Chief has finally apologized. I love that scene.
August 24th, 2009 12:54 PM
george knew perfectly well that Mer had fallen for Der really hard, and in no way was she ever going to feel that way about him. He went into Mer's bedroom, not the other way round. That was an act of a desperate man and he admitted it.
george probably had the best most balanced upbringing of alll of MAGIC, cos he had his mum and dad there, so he wasn't screwed up like Mer.
August 24th, 2009 12:24 PM
Vella, totally agree. You said better than me!. Well done!.
August 24th, 2009 11:57 AM
The fans love George more because being mean to him is the exception, while being mean to Alex and Mark is the norm and being nice is the exception.
George got mad but in the end, he always came through to help anyone who needed it, even the stranger he ended up dying for.
August 24th, 2009 11:49 AM
Yes george made fun of Alex, the guy who had humiliated him since day one, but in the end, George helped Alex do the exam and apss it despite the fact he had cheated on Izzie. When george failed, Alex gave him away to the interns, ridiculed him and didn't help him at all when the time came to do his exams again. So yes George was better than Alex because in the end, George helped Alex retake his exam and Alex didn't help George.
George was mean with Mer6 I love Mer but she ahd her equal share of blame in this. Everyone, even Cristina, knew he was in love with her and she was too in her own world to even notice that. She started to sleep with him, knowing she didn't love him, knowing it would give him false hope, knowing it would hurt him. Yes he shouldn't have slept with ehr knowing she didn't love him but she also should have been more aware of his feelings (he was her friend) and not slept with him. In the end, George took FULL blame for the entire thing when he had only half the blame. Lexie had a crush on him for five minutes, didn't tell him and then told him to screw himself when he wouldn't love her the way she wanted when he didn't even know she felt that way. He never led her on. He never went to bed with her knowing he didn't love her, and she jumped into bed with another guy the day after. Sjhe never admitted she had any blame for going after a guy who didn't love her. If george was to blame for pursuing someone who didn,t love him, so was Lexie for doing the saame and blaming him for not loving her. But unlike George, Lexie never admitted responsbility and never forgave George. George, on the other hand, forgave Mer, took all the blame, stood up for her to her dad even when he was still mad and made sure she got a second shot at the exam.
George had just went through a divorce and a breakup and a failed exqam when Lexie had a thing for him. You ncan't blame him for not knowing her feelings, and at least he didn't got sleep with her and cry during the whole thing.
He was an amazing friend to Mer after thsoe events while Lexie dumped George completely when he needed a friend the most when he wouldn't love her like she wanted.
So again that makes George a better person than Lexie.
Cristina has always been a total mean witch to George. She helped Burke operate with a shaky hand, which could have killed patients. He was totally right to be mad at her. If he had done so, she would have treated him 100 times worse and you know it. Cristina and Burke both should have been fired. They put so many patients at risk, and they could have killed George's dad. And George should be all sweet to her? Are you kidding me? The girl who called him 007 and Bambi and humiliated him all the time. why? There's a difference between being nice and being a doormat.
You act like he married Callie intending on cheating on her. He didn't. He was half out crazy of his mind with grief when he proposed and Callie, instead of seeing that, made him elope before he could come to his senses or someone could stop him from making a decision when he was not in his right mind. She suggested the elopement. He was drunk when he slept with Izzie, so much so he didn,t remember anything. Wghen he remembered, he felt so guilty, he tried to transfer to another hospital not to see Izzie and be tempted. Compare that to Derek who chose Addison, then had an emotional affair with Mer all throughout, doing everything to be with ehr at all time, then slept with her while Mer's boyfriend and his wife were just outside. He never felt guilty about it. Everyone on this show had affairs, but George was the only one to take full responsibility for it and feel guilty about it even though the others all had long affairs while sober and he had a one-night stand while drunk. So yes his feeling guilty and taking full responsibiluity does make him a better person.
I think George was easily the most tortured one of the gang. His family wasn't horrible but they didn't understand him. He felt different and lonely. I think someone had the same discussion with you before, so i can't believe you are writing the same things about having a happy family means you're happy. It doesn,t. Not if everyone is different from you and they don't understand you. George felt alienated from his family. He said so himself. They loved him but they didn't understand him. George was also rejected by his peers at school. He was humiliated by them all the time. His girlfriend at prom dumped him for another guy. He was a reject back there, and he felt different. Do you know how many people in high school kill themselves because they feel alone and different? Most of them have happy families who love them but don't get them. Most of them are not abused physically or emotionally. Loneliness and rejection cause depresion and many suicides. Maybe you never felt this way, so you don't know it.
Yes Alex got beaten up, but Alex got Izzie and he got real friends.
George didn't have a love that lasted. His friends all abandoned him in the last season. He was alone and felt unneeded. Did you see his face when the soldier talked about wanting to be in the army because it was the only place where he felt like he belonged, was loved and needed? George felt like nobody cared about him anymore, he felt like he didn't belong. That is why he joined the army.
His frie nds forgot him. Did you see his face at the wedding when he was the only member of the fab 5 not invited to be part of the wedding party and when he saw that everyone had someone to love except him?
George was alone most of his life. He felt rejected most of his life, and that to me is one of the worst suffering and pain you can go through.
His life came to an abrupt end? No his life came to an end when he saved another girl who ignored him to look for someone more conventionally hotter. He died after suffering one last rejection in a long, long line of rejections.
Yes, Alex and Mark had a really hard past but they have a really great present. They have great professional success, found women to spend the rest of their lives with and are accepted by their peers and have real friends.
George had none of that. I don't get why you can't understand that. If you go for the alst five years alone. George got dubbed 007 and was mocked by the whole hospital, he got syphillis, his dream girl cried in bed with him, his dad died, he got divorced, he lost Izzie, the love of his life, to someone he hated, he failed his exam, had to redo the internship and wqatch as his friends moved on without him and forgot him, his ex became a lesbian, Lexie stopped being his friend when he wouldn't fall in love with her, he was stuck alone in a sucky craptapartment, he became a trauma surgeon only to love five patients in a row, and then he got run over by a bus trying to save a totally shallow twit who wouldn't give him the time of day. He lost his arm, was disfigured, suffered alone for hours while none of his friends recognized him at all and had to hear them call him weak and make jokes about him dying in the army.
Alex, Mark and Derek all are hotshot doctors with loves and friends. George died alone on a table.
So yes George did have a harder time than anyone else those five years and while everyone else got to have a happy ending and true love, he never got a minute of happiness.
Yes he made a few mistakes and wasn't always perfect but he always took full responsibility for each one of his mistakes which is more than you can say for anyone else,and I can say he was nice 99% of the time.
Fans are easier on George? Really? Is thatw ay George keeps being condemned for his one mistake with Izzie but nobody says a word about Alex screwing a married mother or Derek sleeping around on Addison twice or the chief having an affair for eyars. I think people are harder on george than anyone. The others act like jerks and they say, oh it's just how Mark or Alex are. George does one and he gets called a monster when he's nicer than any of thsoe guys could ever dream to be.
Alex gets no credit for me. People get abused when they're young, and thyey don't all become jerks. My husband was beaten by his dad, and he is the sweetest most respectful person you could ever meet.
He thinks Alex is a huge bully and coward who uses his abusive past as an excuse not to grow up.
I was terrified he would hurt Izzie in the finale when he yelled at her. What kind of loser yells at a dying person? And being scared is no excuse. Izzie is the love of George's life and he was terrified, yet he was so tender and sweet with her when she asked him what to do.
That showed to me George was the man for Izzie, not Alex, and that George would always be a trillion times the man Alex is.
August 24th, 2009 10:59 AM
Anuflas:
If I said that George was the character who suffered the most I correct, he wasn't, but he did had a very difficult life, for example: the death of his father. And he doesn't deserve a death like that. And yes, Mark, Derek and Alex made mistakes but I also think that they have many positive things. I NEVER said that they mistakes are more unforgivable than George's. I think that all people have the chance to doing things the right way and have a happy life. But the difference between them and George if that they will have the chance to be happy. George is death, ok. These 5 years I saw him suffer more than happy. And in this last year I didn't know if he was happy or unhappy. Do yo know?
What I wanted to said in my post is that I agree with Ace about the Chief, so if I wasn't clear, I repeat.
I like George, I said many times that he was and is my favorite character, so probably I take things too seriously. But I still think that said all George's mistakes just like that or the people who had be mad it's not right, I didn't liked. I was agreed with everything Ace said until a read that. I think that Ace should not said that, it was out of context. I don't like the way Ace said. It wasn't necessary. We all know that ALL the character made mistakes. Point.
And I think that George's earned the chief respect after this 5 years. The cheif respect George more than Izzie and Alex because he have a better relation with him than with them. It was an example and my opinion. The chief respect Mer for other reasons but not professionally. He take things a different way when is about Mer.I should not be mentioned because I knew that people could misinterpret.
August 23rd, 2009 4:20 PM
Ace,
All I want to say is that you're absolutely right, in an objective POV, about George and the Chief. Excellent post! :D
sarah,
I think that what Ace was trying to make a point at, is that, George is also flawed. It's not out of context, it's just pointing out the truth.
I've seen numerous attacks towards Mark, Derek, and Alex for not being like George and that is, too, unfair to point out only their mistakes. Hardly, I find positive comments about these three, specially Mark and Alex. Derek has his moments but he isn't a favorite either.
They are also human but their mistakes are apparently more unforgivable than George's. It is also unfair that this has to be what it is only known from them. Alex has suffered highly and Derek and Mark have gone through a lot of crap too. Why do they have to be punished and George doesn't?
I also disagree that George was the most suffered character on the show. If anyone, he had a slightly better life than the rest of the interns. No cancer, suicide attempts, or horrible family that didn't treat him right. His life came to an abrupt ending but he lived the best he could. THAT is what should be remembered.
I liked George. He was funny, smart, loyal, and a very good doctor. He'll definitely be missed.
As for the Chief and Mer, I think that their relationship is different but it doesn't mean that he has a higher respect for her. If you remember in the season premiere, Richard was lamenting to Derek how he went soft after Mer joined the program. He feels responsible for much of her troubled childhood and he even blames her for HIS failure in work. Doesn't mean that he has less respect but he sees her more as a daughter type of figure than the Chief type. He has made huge exceptions for her for being Ellis' daughter and (now) Derek's wife.